Proposal: More categories

Indicating and differentiating between grabs might be cool. There are forced hitstun traps like Bloody Twister and grabs. For me the only difference there is one can work on large enemies like Skasa and the other can't. This could be more thoroughly test on mecha tau with his grab guard. I think any hitstun traps will work through that. In game the difference between a hold and super hold is sort of simple. A super hold occurs when you interrupt or prevent a monster from performing an attack. It doesn't necessarily have to be a grab. Stun status can trigger a super hold.

For invincibility and super armor and some other things, that might be more complicated. Many skills only have super armor or invincibility for certain frames. For example, Mountainous Wheel has super armor after the apex of the jump and iframes once you land and for a bit afterwards. Might look a bit messy unless you just indicate skills have super armor with a big Skill has super armor template or something general like that. If you decide to specifically state when the skill gains and loses super armor, it might look weird beside all these other attributes which are generally very short and concise. Or maybe it won't. Try throwing together an example skill page on your user page and let's see how it looks.

Lokd (talk)

I'll work on the skill page example over the next few days when I can. Could take a while since I've never done it before.

For the Holds/Super Holds, they're moves that put enemies into a "grabbed" status or something, I think would be the best crude explanation for my understanding. So with Junk Spin, every hit turns out to be a Super Hold because...the "grabbed" state duration is perfectly timed so that the next Junk hit comes when "grabbed" status ends? Then confusingly, I've encountered situations where after stunning an enemy, every attack against them becomes a Hold for the stun duration, even just simple jabs. This doesn't make sense since the "grabbed" status duration (from the stun) doesn't reset or anything, so why would the hits be considered holds? Other times in the same stun situation, all hits are normal without any Hold statuses appearing. It's still not clear.

SirKerfluffles (talk)

I've been working on making Semantic skill pages that hopefully solve a few of these problems.

As far as things like super-armour and iFrames go, I would just say the skill has them in general with something like a category like Skills that have superarmor and elaborate on where in some place like the notes.

AS FOR GRABS

This game handles lots of stuff weirdly.

Super Hold is I think at a base level "you stopped an enemy from performing an action". This is often overlapped with the generally used term of a hold (which is more often refers to a super hold) or a grab (which is more like Spriggan/BBQ/Smasher that require a hit before animation lock begins).

• There are animation holds, like Fling or Air Steiner where the enemy is travelling with you via forced animation on them.
• There are hitstun holds where the enemy is permanently flinched. Florae Collider and the initial suction of Sesto Elemento are like this.
• There are status holds like the illustrious Junk Spin that just lock something under a negative status effect. The Fear of Death from Dark Side room 4 is like this on players.

Some monsters can get out of hitstun, but can't really get out of a status or animation once inflicted. There are also more bizarre holds like Ouroboros which do something more unique.

-- Everspace (talk)

Alright, that makes things more clear. Sorry about the late response. I'm terrible at focusing on multiple projects at once. Now that the skill info I wanted to do is mostly done, I can start looking into the template myself too. Would be nice to know how to do.

SirKerfluffles (talk)

The whole page needs a rework in such a way that it doesn't screw with what's already entered, and if it does, gracefully fails. I think the current stuff is "good enough" and really doesn't need anything done that soon.

I'm still fiddling with how the semantic stuff should be layed out. Once I get items "done", I would like to come back to skills.

-- Everspace (talk)