User talk:Dfoplayer/Archive03

What why

Why did you mess up a lot of the basic skills (assumin it was you, I noticed you did it for the Dark Knight). The pages look far uglier with all the skills not having their boxes. Copain (talk) 22:31, 9 July 2015 (PDT)

Uhh, which part of Dark Knight? Everspace created Template:ClassSkills so that any time we add new skills, the list will auto generate and no need to add in Dark Knight/Skills page. If needed, I'll look around to see if we can change the DPL extension output to boxes instead of bullets. --Dfoplayer (talk) 22:39, 9 July 2015 (PDT)

Yeah I never mentioned before but I agree with Copain. I like the skills better when they look like they're in tables instead of the bullet format.--SirKerfluffles (talk) 17:51, 10 July 2015 (PDT)

It is very hard to configure DPL to output in tables, for someone who doesn't know HTML and CSS.--Dfoplayer (talk) 20:27, 10 July 2015 (PDT)

EDIT: I think I got it, check it out. Is this what you guys were looking for?--Dfoplayer (talk) 21:09, 10 July 2015 (PDT)

Better then what we currently have. Copain (talk) 15:39, 11 July 2015 (PDT)

Months later and I'm noticing skills are still out of order, would help clarity a lot if they went in order. That or we do something like a skill tree so people can see what is needed for what. Dunno, just feels wrong the way it is. Copain (talk) 00:02, 25 September 2015 (PDT)

Haha. I understand your pain, but sometimes things gotta be "modernized." Just recently, we added new Dark Templar Skills, Deus-Ex Ray. If we were on the old system, we would have to add that skill to the NavClasses manually. Now we don't need to. Just use SkillPage and it will categorize it for you and automatically place the new skill in the updated NavClasses. Less work, but a different interface at a cost. Everspace is planning on using Semantic to try to add attributes to skill pages. From there, we can attempt to organize by skill level. --Dfoplayer (talk) 07:53, 25 September 2015 (PDT)

Once semantic gets going, sorting by level acquired is super easy. Currently, they are all just sorted alphabetically, which is fine in my opinion. If you want to show a skill tree, stitch together a picture from the one in game. Currently I think customized displays for classes like Creator or Dark Knight might be a good idea, but for everything else, I work very hard to not edit things myself. -- Everspace (talk) 16:38, 25 September 2015 (PDT)

Speaking of F slayer stuff, I have videos for all the individual skills if you can go ahead and throw them up. I'm not sure how your new stuff works so I won't bother to tinker with it, but I can do the basics on the pages (assuming that hasn't changed since I lat did it) Copain (talk) 00:26, 2 October 2015 (PDT)

Toggle category

For Skill page Type 3, is it supposed to be toggable? All I get when searching around is recommendation to use togglable or toggleable. I want to make sure right now so every skill is using the same spelling for categorizing later. In addition, what counts as a togglable skill? Do passive skills you can turn off count like Insanity or only use it for skills like Frenzy that last until canceled or you run out of resource to maintain it. I noticed passives like insanity are grouped as conversion skills in game.--Lokd (talk) 08:48, 12 July 2015 (PDT)

For now, yes, Type3 means to be Toggable or blank. I understand your searching, so I asked User:AradEditGuy for F Slayer's Tooltip description. He said it did not specifically say Toggable and it said something like "Press the Skill Key to turn it on or off" so I went with the spelling Everspace had.

I do not know what category "Conversion" for passives is, so your going to have to ask someone else. If needed, we can add that to |Type3, which is why I did not pick |Toggable=y/n, to allow new categories in the future.--Dfoplayer (talk) 09:51, 12 July 2015 (PDT)

Ok, that page has it spelt as togglable but the current page has it spelt as toggable.

Adding it to type 3 sounds like the plan as I don't think a skill can be both togglable and a conversion skill. Or maybe that is just over complicating things and we can just consider them togglable. You can see what I am talking about with passives being grouped as conversion skills if you click the arrow next to your hotkey bar.Conversion is always there as well as any passives you have that can be turned off, seen here--Lokd (talk) 10:19, 12 July 2015 (PDT)

LOL. I spelled it wrong. My bad. Let me fix asap. As for Conversion we can put it at |type3=Togglable.--Dfoplayer (talk) 10:46, 12 July 2015 (PDT)

Fixed. Another thing to note is that some skills that are using SkillPage have hard coded categories like Wave Manifestation Brand. Those need to be removed.--Dfoplayer (talk) 10:57, 12 July 2015 (PDT)

GIF for M Striker and M Nen Master

Just edited M Striker and M Nen Master for its 2nd awakening name, artwork, and GIF. But the GIF seems that it doesn't play but you can click it to open the page and see it to play. So I have no idea how it to play normally on info panel. Let me know if you can fix this, thanks! --Aero X 999 (talk) 22:39, 15 July 2015 (PDT)

Most likely it is caused by going over the mediawiki limit. Try to cut out as much white space as you can and resize the gif to be smaller. If you look at File:Eclipse Ani.gif, the file size 421 KB while yours is over 1 MB. --Dfoplayer (talk) 22:53, 15 July 2015 (PDT)

Oh thanks for letting me know, I had no idea how that it limit the MB for GIF, I'll edit right away. --Aero X 999 (talk) 23:05, 15 July 2015 (PDT)

Ok, edited and fixed; now it works! Thanks again! --Aero X 999 (talk) 23:24, 15 July 2015 (PDT)

Great, I just fixed by resizing the GIF and checked it again and now it doesn't work properly. --Aero X 999 (talk) 01:46, 16 July 2015 (PDT)

Sometimes, the browser has an old image for the web page. Makes them load faster. On the very top (right to history button), there is a dropdown arrow. Click refresh, exit the page, and re enter the page. My phone displays the GIFs properly except for File:NenEmperor1.gif. That one still needs to be resized.--Dfoplayer (talk) 07:12, 16 July 2015 (PDT)

Handling Skill Info for the Metastatis Project

Hey, so I tried out applying the new Template:SkillPage to Block Throw, Torpedo, and Muse's Uppercut. Once all the skill pages use the template, it automatically covers that minor categorization step mentioned on The Great Skill Metastasis Project page. I'd like to go about converting all the non-template pages en masse like I did for (most) of the skill icons, but I'm assuming the main goal of the metastasis page is to show a list of skills pages with info that's updated (use the skill template) vs. outdated (don't use the skill template). So there's 2 options here, I can either

1. Spend countless hours converting pages (I'd only be able to copy the info already on existing pages), and label them with

 {{Missing Info}} 

like I did for Torpedo and Muse's Uppercut. Or use some other method to label pages with outdated info.

2. Spend a more amount of normal hours filling pages for the classes I play with glorious information (Male Brawler, Dark Knight, some f. slayer sometime soon) and leave the rest up whoever decides to work on stuff.

I'm more a fan of Option 1, since it makes updating info more accessible to more people. From what I've seen there aren't too many people working on metastasis, meaning this isn't gonna get done anytime soon. So if it can get to the point where the only stuff left to do is updating the skill info, you could try and ask around to all the people who play a certain class and ask them to just fill in the blanks. Totally fine with Option 2 too though, so I can move on to other things.

I personally was planning on option 1, where I was going to migrate as many skills pages as I can to SkillPage. Except I didn't expect my summer internship to be time consuming.

When converting, just keep the youtube code in the |Video part of skillpage

|Video={{youtube_tn|eE7TV_YDLPc}}

should be

|Video=eE7TV_YDLPc

--Dfoplayer (talk) 13:03, 16 July 2015 (PDT)

Alright then, guess I'll start on some. Since Template:Outdated is on the main page, I think I'm gonna use that instead of the Template:Missing Info tag to make the project more visible.--SirKerfluffles (talk) 14:51, 16 July 2015 (PDT)

Since both do the same thing, I would prefer MissingInfo than Outdated, because it adds the pages to a missing info category. I will do a text replace on all pages and delete Outdated. --Dfoplayer (talk) 16:55, 16 July 2015 (PDT)

Shit man, gotta get more people on this. Blade Master active skills alone took ~2.5 hours--SirKerfluffles (talk) 17:26, 16 July 2015 (PDT)

Seems reasonable. Took me a couple hours to convert all Summoner Skills. I'll try to set some time aside during nights, but I love my internship. --Dfoplayer (talk) 20:24, 16 July 2015 (PDT)

Finished Male Slayer upgrades in about ~20min. The way I do it is take the same type, type2 skill that someone or I finished, like Mountainous Wheel Upgrade, copy and paste

{{SkillPage
|Name=Mountainous Wheel Upgrade
|Video=
|Gender=
|Class=Male Slayer
|Type=Passive
|Type2=TP
|PrerequisiteLevel=50
|PrerequisiteSkill={{IconLink|Mountainous Wheel}} level 10+

|Command=
|Description=Increases Jump Height, Bleeding duration, Attack Power, and Shockwave range for {{IconLink|Mountainous Wheel}}.

|Attributes=
*{{TP per level|1}}

and modify certain things, like |Name={{PAGENAME}}, skill requirements and such. For me, it makes the same group of skills goes faster.--Dfoplayer (talk) 21:07, 16 July 2015 (PDT)

I just fixed SkillPage to include two classes. If we have three classes, then I'll go nuts. Lightsabre Mastery is one of the few with two classes. --Dfoplayer (talk) 21:44, 16 July 2015 (PDT)

Black Arachnia Undelete?

Hey, is it possible to retrieve stuff from deletion? Only one of the Black Arachnia pages was supposed to be deleted (the one with improper spelling). I just marked both since I didn't know which one it was and described it in the reason. --SirKerfluffles (talk) 18:54, 17 August 2015 (PDT)

Yes, it is possible. Sorry, I use mass delete to wipe everything. I'll make sure I read the reason in the future. --Dfoplayer (talk) 18:58, 17 August 2015 (PDT)

Alright, np. Something to keep in mind on this side too. --SirKerfluffles (talk) 19:28, 17 August 2015 (PDT)

Metastasis Page Redesign

Hey, so in a few hours all the template conversions will be done, barring some miscellaneous cases of things that should be deleted or archived. So considering that how it works right now (from my limited understanding) is that the DPL loading thing reads whether or not a skill page uses the Template:SkillPage or not , can you change it be to that it separates the pages to be based on if it uses Template:Missing Info or not? That way we can get the visual functionality back of which pages need to be info updated or not. Also it'd probably be a good idea to update the project description at that point. --SirKerfluffles (talk) 22:16, 31 August 2015 (PDT)

Added. I wanted to use tabs or hiddentext, but template fails to load. The page just has no SkillPage and Missing Info lists. --Dfoplayer (talk) 22:48, 31 August 2015 (PDT)

Well, I underestimated the Kunoichi section. Way too many skills and all those colons messing up automation. Super tired. Will have to finish tomorrow. Once everything's out of the "doesn't use skill page" section it can be deleted. Unfortunate about the template not loading though. Hopefully some kind of work around can be made. --SirKerfluffles (talk) 00:45, 1 September 2015 (PDT)

Nice! Didn't notice that the new "Missing Info" list generated before. Anyways, before removing the other "lacks skill template" section, it's probably a good idea to take care of these so they don't just become lost as random stray pages:

• Triple Threat
• Sacrifice
• Execution (F slayer move) <- which I agree looks like a terrible naming scheme
• Raging Tiger Fist
• Immobility Booster
• Pierce Booster
• Hand Cannon Mastery
• Flash Mine (Female)
• Battle Axe Mastery

--SirKerfluffles (talk) 14:51, 1 September 2015 (PDT)

1) I'm pretty sure the male fighters need to be moved to <Skill> (Male), ex: Spiral Nen (M) -> Spiral Nen (Male).

2) Some of those skills have been removed, so the proper thing is to delete the categories so they don't appear in the lists (and maybe mark them with delete). When I mean to archive content, I usually mean some feature, like the short-lived Fair Arena, and not skills. There's a debate on that.

3) Execution can be deleted, correct? --Dfoplayer (talk) 15:01, 1 September 2015 (PDT)

1) Yeah. The skill names there are messed up for sure. I'll handle some when I encounter them, but I'm also trying to get a list of rules down to post on the main Metastasis page for other people to work with. In the case of the Flash Mine though, says there's a combined page for it instead of the separate pages approach. Not familiar with the skill so can't judge it the M/F versions are close enough.

2) Ok, I can just remove the categories I guess if you don't. Don't know how people want to handle it from there, but it sounds like it'd be nice if there was an archive of delete things from previous versions.

3) Based on the delete description provided it sounds safe to delete. Also, I do see a skill called Castigation like it mentions so likely yes. --SirKerfluffles (talk) 15:38, 1 September 2015 (PDT)

2) No it is not nice. I don't like maintaining incomplete articles on old version things. This is very apparent for items and monsters. The wiki should be a database for things that are used for understanding the current state of the game. I'm happy to retain NPCs from pre-metastasis, and some major plot points but everything else should go because it's not applicable anymore. Loton for example should stay because he is referenced in game in mirror Arad. Lorianne is referenced on chessboard. Old skills do not affect the understanding of the current game state and thus should be nuked from orbit. -- Everspace (talk) 15:49, 1 September 2015 (PDT)

That just sounds so disrespectful to the game. I agree that one very important function of a wiki is helping people understand the current state of the game (or anything a wiki is used for). But as a whole a wiki is meant to provide as much information as possible for the subject it's being used for, and that includes keeping at least a small reference to the past. I mean, it's not like the old skill pages there have to be very visible. They can be reduced in this one section/category of "things deleted from the game" and have brief descriptions of what they did or something. And they would not have to be edited (since there's nothing to edit) and would only be found by people interested in seeing the game's history. Like patch notes (I don't think we have those here) --SirKerfluffles (talk) 17:22, 1 September 2015 (PDT)

Hey, careful. Some pages are lacking template conversion due to not having been categorized prior to the update. I'll be doing a second sweep of the skills to check for pages that need to be updated. --Altair (talk) 16:16, 1 September 2015 (PDT)

Thank you for that. I really do believe we need consistency checkers for such a big project like this. --SirKerfluffles (talk) 17:22, 1 September 2015 (PDT)

Which is why I added Available Skills section, which has the old skillnav. Unless of course, someone forgot to add the skill to the nav. --Dfoplayer (talk) 18:31, 1 September 2015 (PDT)

On the topic of inconsistencies and/or for the topic below (Updating Directions):

There's a bunch of things that are inconsistent on different skill pages that I want to bring up. Some of them are pretty nit-picky but I'll just address them nonetheless.

1. Commands: vs + on some pages.
2. sec, secs, Sec, Sec(s), sec.
   I've been personally using "sec" but the attributes use "sec" and the outline on Template:SkillPage uses Sec(s) for tables
3. Usage of Template:Bgblue.
   I think User:Everspace didn't want people using it any more
4. Listing of skills which are affected by that SkillPage, sometimes it's under Notes, Description, Attributes.
   Example pages: Overheat, Thunder God Energy, Heavy Firearm Technique
5. Old videos
   Should we replace them when we can? Some of them are low quality and/or bad at showcasing the skill.
6. Including Lv.X in a skill row that's header also includes "Level"
   Example: Needle Sobat. I can see why it'd be useful if you're scrolling down and don't exactly remember which header is which. Some pages include and some exclude 'em.
7. Prerequisite Skill format.
   Using IconLink or not, using bullets or not, and things like Lv10, Level 10, Lv. 10.
8. Usage of Template:MaxSkillRow.
   Either being used as the actual maximum (which I think is the correct usage) or highest rank possible at the current cap (Lv85)

Or we could just leave it as is and worry about the bigger picture for now. --AradEditGuy (talk) 17:54, 1 September 2015 (PDT)

That is true, many small inconsistencies are scattered across the wiki. It will take some time to fix those, but like you said, we should fix the "bigger picture" for now. I believe Everspace made SkillPage to standardize most of the pages, and that way all the skills look similar. --Dfoplayer (talk) 18:31, 1 September 2015 (PDT)

Yeah. Honestly it'd be great if we could work all those out, because it would minimize the amount of times we'd have to go back and edit "finished" pages again if we ever decide to standardize. I think that's actually what I'm trying to get at with the topic below (added as an edit). Ideally we'd work all this out before info updates, but catching every little thing...unless we were starting from absolute scratch we're not gonna get everything. For now, the best thing we could try would be to bring up the issues to the Metastasis talk page as they come to get a consensus on them as fast as possible. Some comments:

(4)Discussion necessary. I think they should go in Notes, but I know the game lists them in the skill descriptions so that's why people put it in the Description section so it still works there. Also, Notes disappears if there's nothing there (unlike Attributes) so it could make a cleaner page.

(5)Sounds like a good idea, but it's a lower priority than the main information. Might be something to consider for tagging a page with {{Missing Info}}

(8)Is that what the green rows were? I think that should only be used when a skill is considered "Mastered" by the game. Like Physical Critical Hit at 10.

Issue: Should there be [[File: {{PAGENAME}}.png]] in the description section? Seems superfluous, but it was there on the first 50 or so pages I worked on so I left it in for everything else. --SirKerfluffles (talk) 18:49, 1 September 2015 (PDT)

1) No +. Totally unnecessary. However, perhaps for the commands where it's something like (Hold) + .

2) I don't particularly care. I'm partial to "sec" without the dot.

3) Yea. This and SkillTableRow or any other original-style-do-not-steal inline css. Eventually, I'm going to replace the contents of SkillTableHeader with just a different class directive, class=skilltable.

4) Description is for the "as close to the in game" description as possible, a blurb or high level overview of the skill. Attributes is for things that do not change as the skill levels, like duration for some buffs (think "properties of this skill"). Notes is for everything else that's going on with that skill.

5) Replace them if they are poor and you think they could be better. That's how wiki's get better ;P. I do not agree with using missing info. I think making new templates for types of work is important. MissingInfo when I started using it was for tables that were incomplete and "needed info" (I'm not an X, there's no way I can get the level 85 values for this). Verification as well as for drop locations of an item. If we need a video, we should have something like Media Needed.

6) Ehhh? Most skilltables go "Level of skill, Character level for that level, resource cost". I do think that the tables can get a bit too much lengthwise. I was considering adding scrolling if it gets too big but overall I don't think it's a big problem.

7) I would like to use IconLink and break tags (<br/>). When we (I) go to make things semantic, I may drop the IconLink and reformulate it into the template (since skills can only have 2 prerequisites at most).

8) I have been putting it onto rows that are the highest able to be achieved. This is handy for things like Demonize where you can go quite a bit higher, for skills like Transcendence Runes where you do want to stack it if you can (Transcendence Runes for example). I used to like the (M) insignia for skills that couldn't be levelled, and think a template with a tooltip would be nice. Template:Mastered perhaps.

Overall I'm a little bit not-happy with how skill template is working out, but it's better than previously. I do like the infobox stuff since it matches our class pages, but the Notes thing is getting too general purpose. I think reinforcing proper format rather than baking it into the template is the better idea. I really wish I could do a mass search and replace now to convert that (should be rather safe to convert the |Bluh= into ==Bluh== with the proper regex). This would also lead into Semanticing the wiki, and the ability to link Skills and Items together amongst other things. The whole span hiding workaround is also bothering me a lot -- Everspace (talk) 22:16, 1 September 2015 (PDT)

4) I think a better way to describe it might be something along the lines of "A description of what the skill visually looks like it does on screen". "Description is for the "as close to the in game" description as possible" makes it so that list of affected skills does fit in there, because the game lists them in the skill info/description. "a blurb or high level overview of the skill" might not be clear in meaning.

In regards to the Notes section, can it be made so that the skill template accepts any arbitrary number of |AttrName (<-- which could be any value) so that Notes can be split up into different sections according to the skill. There'd be a general guideline of what to use for the names, of course, though that doesn't disallow for people to put something like |ReallyDumbNameasdfasdfa.

On another note, this indenting is getting pretty far in. Do we start out-denting or does someone break the chain and we start indenting again from there? --SirKerfluffles (talk) 07:58, 2 September 2015 (PDT)

No more indenting. There is a new talk page design, called liquid threads. It will take care of the colons ":", but will not convert any old pages that use them. Someone would have to manually move the talks to an Archive page. --Dfoplayer (talk) 21:10, 5 September 2015 (PDT)

Metastatis Updating Directions

I made a tentative change to the Metastasis intro on my user page given the new state of things SirKefluffles. Could you guys provide some feedback? Note that I'm literally talking to the ones reading this draft version in 2 parts and they would not be appearing in the final version: the list of what to include in attributes and the italics part in the first bullet section. Edit: Basically, I'm asking what we should tell updaters to look out for so that we don't have to go back and change a bunch of stuff on "finished" pages later. --SirKerfluffles (talk) 17:22, 1 September 2015 (PDT)